iPhone 3.5G to support 1080p H.264 High-Profile Dual-Stream Decoding?

Thursday 01st May 2008, 02:44:00 PM, written by Arun

Yesterday, Imagination Technologies announced that Samsung had signed a license to manufacture "certain POWERVR SGX graphics and VXD video IP cores". Apple instantly came to everyone's mind, and AppleInsider is partially confirming it. But they don't realize just how massive the implications are.

First, let's point out that nobody really knows when a iPod or an iPhone based on SGX and VXD will come out. It could be in one month, in one year, or even more. There's simply not enough data to determine that, especially since 'manufacturing' is vague (is this required for tape-out?) and nobody knows when those agreements were actually signed, rather than just announced. Obviously if the chip with those cores barely taped-out, we're not going to see it in this year's iPhone 3G!

It is extremely likely that other phones will come out this year with PowerVR's SGX; so that wouldn't be a huge advantage for Apple. They'd be an early adopter, but nothing incredible. VXD, on the other hand, is much more interesting as it supports 1080p H.264 Main/High Profile decoding, as well as VC-1 and a variety of other standards. From our understanding, no mobile phone manufacturer has anything on their roadmap with such capabilities for the next 2+ years; this implies that such capabilities would likely go unmatched by competitors until late 2010. So even if it's a mid-2009 product, that's still very impressive, and ought to keep Nokia & friends on their toes.

So why would you want 1080p on your mobile phone or personal media player, anyway? The point obviously isn't to run that on your handheld's screen; assuming a high enough bitrate, there's simply no way you'd see the difference on a VGA 4.5 inches screen between 720p and 1080p (however, we'd argue the difference between VGA/D1 and 720p should be fairly obvious; that's also why many QVGA handhelds with much smaller screens, including the original iPod with Video, could play VGA H.264).

No, the point is obviously to use your handheld as your media center (via HDMI) and eventually buy all your HD movies on iTunes. Clearly most people's internet connection may seem to be too slow for high-bitrate 1080p videos; however, 3.5G and 4G mobile networks will likely fix that problem in the 2009-2011 timeframe. Streaming it via WiFi is also possible, and you might even be able to connect your handheld to an external USB HDD.

Obviously not everyone will benefit from 1080p video decoding capabilities and consider it a major selling point. However, the fact remains that every single mobile phone manufacturer is going down that route in a few years, and if these rumours are true it looks like Apple might have a large head start against them. Right now, the iPhone isn't really anything extraordinary from a technical perspective; its major selling point is its user interface. That might all change if/once these rumours come to fruition, though.

As a reminder, PowerVR's VXD core is extremely power efficient; in fact, a handheld's LCD screen is likely to take as much or more power than the decoding hardware on a leading-edge process node! Intel's implementation for the Atom platform on 130nm is said to consume only 120mW for 1080p H.264 High Profile (Single-Stream); clearly that's already viable for a handheld, and it'd be even much lower on 65nm or 45nm.

So will Apple surprise and actually deliver a SGX/VXD-based iPhone next month? We don't think so, but hey - we don't think we're the only ones who'd love to be pleasantly surprised here!


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Tagging

apple ± iphone, powervr, sgx, vxd


Latest Thread Comments (18 total)
Posted by wco81 on Saturday, 03-May-08 18:37:02 UTC
True, people do like watching movies on long flights.Air travel is becoming expensive though.I was thinking more of subways and commuter trains. Outside of a handful of big US cities, it's nothing like in the rest of the world.Of course, it's not easy to sell movies for downloads outside the US because of contents rights holder issues. iTunes still doesn't sell too many videos outside of the US.Again, I wonder if this isn't more about making a device with this kind of technology simply because they can or because there is or will be a market for HD videos on mobile devices.

Posted by AlphaWolf on Saturday, 03-May-08 18:45:33 UTC
Quoting wco81
True, people do like watching movies on long flights.
Doesn't really have to be a long flight when you consider time to board etc.

Quote
Air travel is becoming expensive though.
All travel is becoming expensive.

Quote
I was thinking more of subways and commuter trains. Outside of a handful of big US cities, it's nothing like in the rest of the world.

Of course, it's not easy to sell movies for downloads outside the US because of contents rights holder issues. iTunes still doesn't sell too many videos outside of the US.

Again, I wonder if this isn't more about making a device with this kind of technology simply because they can or because there is or will be a market for HD videos on mobile devices.
If you don't innovate you stagnate, apple certainly doesn't want people thinking the ipod they bought last year is good enough.

Posted by Scott_Arm on Saturday, 03-May-08 21:26:21 UTC
Quoting wco81
Not so sure 3G is fast enough for good quality video nor that carriers are able to support widespread streaming of video.
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the speed is. I don't think there's a standard to be expected from 3G, so it really depends on the network and what technologies are available. UMTS w/ HSPA deployments are operating at 7.2Mbit download according to wikipedia. Theoretically HSPA can do 14.4Mbit download. Not sure which networks they're referring to. I was trying to look up Rogers Vision details, but couldn't find anything. 7.2Mbit should be fast enough for some high quality video.

I know AT&T was not ready for the increase in mobile traffic on their network when they launched the iPhone.

So, I guess Apple is hopefully going to make the technology available to consumers, but I doubt carriers will support it unless you pay a very high premium for your plan.

Posted by Arun on Sunday, 04-May-08 08:34:57 UTC
Well, the 2009 version of the iPhone might, or might not, be based on HSPA+ (if it was, it'd be an early adopter which would be strange for Apple, but it's an incremental improvement and many chips that support HSDPA in that timeframe will also support HSPA+). If it was, that's 36Mbps downlink - of course, in practice you won't get quite that much, but in real-time it might be able to handle 15Mbps peaks just fine. Of course, that's more viable for high-qquality 720p than low-quality 1080p but it could do both at least in theory...

Also, don't forget that the same chip might be used for the HDD iPods in that timeframe. There, storage really is the least of your problems! (200GB+ ftw)

Posted by wco81 on Sunday, 04-May-08 14:08:33 UTC
If they do push 1080p videos on iPhones, it would be probably through sideloading (download to computer and sync to iPhone via iTunes), not through streaming or downloading via the mobile network.And you probably won't have Blu-Ray type of encodes because they're using BD-50 more and more. Probably not even comparable to BD-25 encodes. So bitrates will probably be low.Doesn't 720p content on iTunes go as low as 5 mbps?

Posted by Arun on Sunday, 04-May-08 21:29:39 UTC
Quoting wco81
Doesn't 720p content on iTunes go as low as 5 mbps?
Yes, but NVIDIA is partially to blame here IIRC...

Posted by Scott_Arm on Friday, 23-May-08 17:21:35 UTC
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/05/23/telecom_exec_says_3g_iphone_to_support_42mbps_hspa.html

I'm not so sure about seeing a 42Mbps connection on the iPhone, even if it supports it, but AT&T is shooting for 7.2Mbps next year and 20Mbps in 2009/2010? It's definitely enough for an HD video stream. Actually, 7.2Mbps is enough for 720p.

Posted by Arun on Friday, 23-May-08 22:35:40 UTC
42Mbps corresponds to HSPA+ with 64QAM and 2x2 MIMO; on Qualcomm's roadmap, that is available for data cards today, but there's no ETA for handhelds at all - in fact, the most they'll support there is 10Mbps HSPA+ which is a pretty massive difference. The more I think about it, the more I think this rumour is BS.

Posted by wco81 on Friday, 23-May-08 22:44:45 UTC
Do the higher bandwidth implementations require more power?That kind of bandwidth would be for streaming HD content?Is that really that critical a feature? iPods and iPhones have lived with sideloading, not direct downloading.Direct downloads may make sense for the occasional song or a short video clip. But for HD streams?That would tax the network if a lot of users are doing that at one time?Isn't Qualcomm also doing Media Flo?

Posted by Scott_Arm on Saturday, 24-May-08 00:12:43 UTC
Quoting wco81
Do the higher bandwidth implementations require more power?

That kind of bandwidth would be for streaming HD content?

Is that really that critical a feature? iPods and iPhones have lived with sideloading, not direct downloading.

Direct downloads may make sense for the occasional song or a short video clip. But for HD streams?

That would tax the network if a lot of users are doing that at one time?

Isn't Qualcomm also doing Media Flo?
Well, when they hit 7.2Mbps I think you'll see fairly high quality video calling with phones that support it. With the iPhone you could watch HD trailers off the apple trailers site, or maybe rent a tv show or movie through iTunes. Of course, 7.2Mbps is peak and I'm not sure what the actual average bandwidth you'd get is. If you could stay near the peak if you were in an area of good coverage, then they could theoretically stream a video rental for you. I'm sure there are some people that have long commutes that might rent a tv episode.

I'm not familiar with the mobile part of AT&Ts network, so I don't know what the capabilities are in terms of service delivery, but I'd doubt it would be ready for HD video on mobile phones when the 3G network is up.


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