Tiny RV620 and G98 die sizes leak out

Friday 23rd November 2007, 07:40:00 PM, written by Arun

Expreview has got their hands on die shots from NVIDIA and AMD's upcoming low-end chips, and while that isn't particularly interesting in itself, they managed to break tradition and leak the chips' dimensions at the same time.

[This piece is the second in a streak of experimental content which uses lists of facts and analysis rather than prose. We believe this should be faster to both read and write, while delivering a clearer message and being easier to follow. So let's see how this goes...]

Data

  • AMD's RV620 is 7.0x9.5mm (~67mm²) versus RV610's 7.5x10.5mm (~79mm²). That's ~15% smaller.
  • RV620 is expected to be a 55nm shrink of the RV610 (65nm), with added DisplayPort capabilities.
  • NVIDIA's G98 is 9.0x9.5mm (~86mm²) versus G86's 10.0x10.5mm (~127mm²). That's ~30% smaller.
  • G98 is expected to be a 65nm shrink of the G86 (80nm), with added DisplayPort capabilities but no 128-bit bus support.
  • The RV620 is expected to be part of the HD3000 Series, while the G98 would remain branded as GeForce 8400GS.

Process Scaling Analysis

  • In practice, Moore's Law doesn't result in twice the transistors per mm² for each full-node migration (i.e. 90nm to 65nm). Scaling for logic-only designs is likely to be 40% or less, and real chips with analogue and I/O will scale even worse.
  • TSMC's 55nm process is a 10% linear shrink of 65nm in each dimension, or 19% overall. Interestingly, analogue and I/O are claimed to also scale by that amount.
  • TSMC's half-nodes, such as 55nm and 80nm, tend not to really do half the scaling; going from 80nm to 65nm should thus result in slightly better scaling than 65nm to 55nm for digital logic.
  • 80nm was also a 19% shrink, but it did not affect analogue and I/O. This means the scaling wasn't as good as 55nm's in practice. Similarly, 80nm to 65nm possibly didn't shrink analogue as much (if at all).

Chip Scaling Analysis

  • Smaller chips, such as RV620 and G98, have a higher percentage of I/O and analogue, which makes 55nm an especially attractive half-node.
  • The two are very hard to compare, however, as G98 loses 4 ROPs and half of its memory bus width compared to G86. On the other hand, analogue and I/O scaling is likely better for RV620.
  • Overall, digital logic still dominates, so NVIDIA would likely have obtained slightly better scaling even if G98 was a straight shrink of G86. At worst, it would have been similar.

Cost Analysis

  • Just like RV610, it is unlikely for RV620 to have a cut-down SKU. Shader core redundancy is probably similar to that in R600's (17 ALUs for every group of 16). It is unknown whether there is fine redundancy for anything else.
  • It has also been rumoured that there would be a G98 SKU with only 4 TMUs, 8 SPs and 2 ROPs. It is unknown whether that will be the case, but a SKU with at least some coarse redundancy does seem likely.
  • Both IHVs are benefiting from the extremely low DDR2 prices and their indirect effect on GDDR3/GDDR4 pricing.
  • Assuming no IPC improvements from either side, performance with 800MHz DDR2 should roughly be a wash.

Overall, AMD has a clear cost advantage with the RV620: wafer prices for 55nm should be very close or even identical to those for 65nm, and yields aren't as much of a concern for such an incredibly small chip. The gap isn't as big as it was with RV610 and G86, both in relative and absolute terms, but it remains significant.

Given RV620's support for DX10.1 and its lower cost, it does seem like a splendid chip for the OEM market. We look forward to comparing G98 and RV620's success and capabilities in the coming months.


Discuss on the forums

Tagging

corelogic ± RV620, G98, NVIDIA, AMD


Latest Thread Comments (12 total)
Posted by fellix on Friday, 23-Nov-07 23:14:50 UTC
Draw a diced wafer by hand and count them. :D

Posted by AlStrong on Friday, 23-Nov-07 23:45:30 UTC
No thanks, that's why I asked. Without doing much more work, I figure at least an extra 100 chips for the main biggest square within the wafer. I don't feel like doing the chips that fit in the sides.

Posted by CJ on Friday, 23-Nov-07 23:49:01 UTC
I'm suprised the die-size of G94 hasn't leaked yet. ;)

Posted by Arun on Friday, 23-Nov-07 23:56:04 UTC
Tsk tsk, you tease! But what happened to G96? :|

Posted by INKster on Saturday, 24-Nov-07 00:10:31 UTC
Quoting CJ
I'm suprised the die-size of G94 hasn't leaked yet. ;)
Let me guess.
I will be called the "Geforce 8600 GT/8600 GTS", but comes with a weird 192 bit bus and greater amount of scalar processors than it's predecessor, the G84/8600 GT/8600 GTS (the old ones... :D). ;)
Will they dare call them "8700 GT/8700 GTS", since it's already in existence in the mobile space ?

Posted by CJ on Saturday, 24-Nov-07 00:15:14 UTC
Quoting Arun
Tsk tsk, you tease! But what happened to G96? :|
It's still around too. ;)
Quoting INKster
Let me guess.I will be called the "Geforce 8600 GT/8600 GTS", but comes with a weird 192 bit bus and greater amount of scalar processors than it's predecessor, the G84/8600 GT/8600 GTS (the old ones... :D). ;)Will they dare call them "8700 GT/8700 GTS", since it's already in existence in the mobile space ?
:razz:There might indeed be some weird configurations. Looking forward to the final names too. :grin:

Posted by The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy on Saturday, 24-Nov-07 00:48:44 UTC
Quoting fellix
Draw a diced wafer by hand and count them. :D
This might be a little easier. (http://www.icknowledge.com/misc_technology/die_calculator.xls)

Posted by fellix on Sunday, 25-Nov-07 00:05:18 UTC
Quoting The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy
This might be a little easier. (http://www.icknowledge.com/misc_technology/die_calculator.xls)
Yay! Now I have to look for a free worksheet password recovery tool. :lol:

Posted by The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy on Sunday, 25-Nov-07 07:36:01 UTC
Quoting fellix
Yay! Now I have to look for a free worksheet password recovery tool. :lol:
What's wrong with the linked file?

Posted by satein on Sunday, 25-Nov-07 11:44:17 UTC
Quoting The_Wolf_Who_Cried_Boy
What's wrong with the linked file?
Work fine with me :grin:

Probably, he ment by opening up the worksheet to see inside the XLS file.


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